Aside from completely misunderstanding everything I have written on Gafni's abuses, and mocking me as "Sir William," they also miss many of the relevant facts (for example, Gafni was having affairs with one or both of the women while holding up his monogamous marriage as an example to his community). Oops. Then there are all the other lies. Oops.
Since I am the only person who is named in the video (they mention Joe Perez but do not comment on him), I'll offer a very weak defense because, really, who gives a fuck anymore? Gafni is essentially isolated, with Sally Kempton the only big supporter left at his side, and well . . . enough said.
It's funny that they attack me, oh so gently, for supposedly thinking that this whole issue was about a sexually aggressive man and weak women in need of [my] defense. I have no doubt that both women willingly entered into relationship with Gafni, and even seduced him, but that does not negate his lies and manipulations.
One of Gafni's criticisms of those who have called him out has been that we fail to grasp the complexity of an integral, all quadrants perspective, yet his whole defense (and that of his defenders) is to simplify his actions to "adults having consensual sex" and, with that, sometimes people have their feelings hurt.
The trollz also try to compare this to the Denis Merzel affair - they claim Merzel got off easy in comparison. But in the Zen community, Merzel was ostracized and there has been a concerted effort by leaders in the Zen community to prevent him from teaching as a Zen Buddhist.
To their credit, Robb Smith, Diane Hamilton, John Dupuy, and even Elliott Ingersoll (in a Facebook thread) made public statements about Gafni's misconduct. Too bad more integral teachers also did not step up.
You can watch the video for yourself. I realize they were just having fun - but if they did not have an agenda, they would have poked at Perez and Gafni, as well.
Hey Bill!
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the Integral Trollz. Thanks for watching our video.
But I'd like to correct/discuss with you a couple of things.
1. We weren't really adopting the personalities or perspectives of either of those two people. They just suggested we use the "female" models.
2. The only opinion one of us has on Gafni is actually from reading you and Joe Perez's blog posts. Any defense of Marc comes only on the perceived (by me) strengths of the two arguments. As I believe we made clear, we're not defending Marc (but that is because of the one first hand sources we have that isn't Marc, she made a pretty glowing defense) and the one person in this situation who may have been hurt only has another source vouching for that fact (Tami) and then -you- quoting -that-.
3. Source where Marc was using his monogamous marriage as an example to his community during these relationships.
I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm saying you're the only person who has brought that up during the discussions on that and I'm curious as to whether you are right as that changes the elements of personal ethics.
4. Source more lies! I would love to know about them. But please leave out the interpretations.
5. "I'll offer a very weak defense because, really, who gives a fuck anymore? Gafni is essentially isolated, with Sally Kempton the only big supporter left at his side, and well . . . enough said."
Is this it? The -actual- goal behind your campaign? This hasn't been about protecting people from his depredations, it's been about isolating him? Pushing him out of the community?
6. This leads into another point, your posts are so terribly slanted in just about every claim that I have trouble taking you seriously. -You- are the reason I've found myself wanting to defend Marc Gafni actually. I understand, you're a blogger and you have an agenda, damnit!
But seriously, your pieces are hack jobs/smears. Not balanced presentation of the situation.
7. Yeah, Dennis Murzel sure did get off easy. He lives in Hawaii teaching Big Mind for 10,000 a weekend to a small cadre of people. Man, that is so bad.
He ran. He wasn't ostracized as far as I can tell, though that may have happened to. He went into self-imposed exile before anything else could happen. Now? He could be doing the same thing and there's less people to catch it, and no one to call him out on it (as far as a community).
Oh, and then he went ahead and started saying Kanzeon owes him how much? Yeah, soooo much less harmful and dangerous.
I realize my tone is rather flippant, it's the mood I'm in and I don't actually put much faith in that this will lead to much discussion.
Finally, we could of pointed more fun at Joe Perez. But even though he has bias in the situation, his arguments seem far more backed up and supported in comparison.
Check around, we give Joe Perez shit elsewhere.
Cheers,
Kaine DeBoer
Kaine,
ReplyDeleteI found the piece humorous and intelligent. LOL.
Three minor points of correction of you or Bill. (1) MG stepped out of a domestic partnership by mutual agreement before dating the two women. They weren't married. (2) Only one woman of the two was a student, so there were not "students" as the video said at one point. (3) The statement that MG is isolated is wishful thinking on Bill's part. He's had a rough patch, but there's a lot of positive stuff going on in his work -- four books coming out in the next couple of years, etc., plus a book on the way with Ken Wilber, plus a thriving Center for World Spirituality with dozens of members on its wisdom council and committed board members.
This is a long way of saying no comment. ;-)
Joe
I think it's hilarious that in this day and age there are people still willing to defend their favorite gurus after they've been exposed as having all the maturity of your average hormonally rampant high school student.
ReplyDeleteI guess once you've invested in the cult it's hard to walk away.
"Yeah, Dennis Murzel sure did get off easy. He lives in Hawaii teaching Big Mind for 10,000 a weekend to a small cadre of people. Man, that is so bad."
Trust a Gafni supporter to use monetary gain as the measure of the good life. Who needs respect, honesty and integrity when you can make dough! From snake oil!