tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post115245005385022393..comments2024-03-27T02:13:58.088-07:00Comments on Integral Options Cafe: Ray Harris on Ken Wilber, Don Beck, and Integral Institutewilliam harrymanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06981478282688361274noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-1152511235616118622006-07-09T23:00:00.000-07:002006-07-09T23:00:00.000-07:00I was quite impressed that he used the ABCDEF. I'v...I was quite impressed that he used the ABCDEF. I've followed Bonewits' writing for years, and have always liked the scale. And I wasn't being facetious about the Weight Watchers comment.<BR/><BR/>Tom, it'd be really nice if YOU rejoined the conversation. Your penchant for using insults and projection to replace reasoned argument is wearing thin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-1152487195870635192006-07-09T16:19:00.000-07:002006-07-09T16:19:00.000-07:00Jay Allen Andrew wrote in his "level-headed post" ...Jay Allen Andrew wrote in his "level-headed post" ... "drags out the Advanced Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame, assigning a quotient to figure out if Wilber is going to instruct his devotees to hole up in Jonestown anytime soon" ... "Shouldn't we be focusing on which organizations are the most effective at awakening their participants? That's how we judge Atkins and Weight Watchers."<BR/><BR/>Jay: Since the topic is cultic, which translates to manipulation and control, authoritarianism and loss of freedom, it is appropriate to look at the enterprise in terms of abusive factors. The world is not running out of electrons; if you don't want to participate, take your brain elsewhere.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13718601770472939313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-1152470389699703222006-07-09T11:39:00.000-07:002006-07-09T11:39:00.000-07:00"As always, make up your own mind. It is my hope t...<I>"As always, make up your own mind. It is my hope that if there is any truth to these evaluations of KW and I-I that both the man and the organization will take a hard look at themselves. If there isn't any truth in this, maybe Earpy will ride again."</I><BR/><BR/>Bill: The considerable problem with your conclusion is that the opposite is what's much more likely to happen and you have it all backwards.<BR/><BR/>Wilber and his organization is becoming increasingly insular and tribelike, paranoid and cultish. Ken has bristled at criticism for a long time and engaged in displays of narcissism for decades and it all only gets worse and worse. Currently, he seems to be purifying his leauge of associates ever more such that they are boiled down to just the trusty sychophants and drones.<BR/><BR/>He DOESNT take a hard look at himself. He even posts old pictures of himself, he is so enamored of a view seen through gauze.<BR/><BR/>Earpy will ride again for the reason he told us he went on rampage to begin with: When it is time for a periodic Wilber tantrum.<BR/><BR/>We will all, I suppose, make up our own minds, or not, on all of this. But the danger is for suggestive types or those in need of a father substitute.<BR/><BR/>Plus, there is something ironic and subversive about a movement that, at its core, is good and mature and embracing being subsumed by a Cult of Personality run by a Stalin wannabe. The world is in crisis on many fronts. The Integral movement <I>could have</I> played a part in pulling us back from the brink. However, today, Integral is engulfed in a Crisis of Absurdity and is a joke that is unable to even help itself.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13718601770472939313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-1152453410873888562006-07-09T06:56:00.000-07:002006-07-09T06:56:00.000-07:00No comparison intended -- just suggesting that whi...No comparison intended -- just suggesting that while I find some value in Harris and Benjamin, others don't take them seriously. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.<BR/><BR/>Peace,<BR/>Billwilliam harrymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06981478282688361274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-1152452655830993992006-07-09T06:44:00.000-07:002006-07-09T06:44:00.000-07:00Bill,You can't be serious comparing Ray Harris & E...Bill,<BR/><BR/>You can't be serious comparing Ray Harris & Eliot Benjamin's careful, balance-seeking posts to pagan Jay Andrew Allen's short, daffy, spitting and snarlly fit of a post.<BR/><BR/>Harris and Benjamin write mature, scholarly essays, written in an effort to be object and say things about Wilber that are fully consistant with all outsiders' observations that I've seen.<BR/><BR/>Allen, in what is his fashion, writes a paranoid tribal flare.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13718601770472939313noreply@blogger.com