tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post8974714725332477743..comments2024-03-27T02:13:58.088-07:00Comments on Integral Options Cafe: Robb Smith's Response to the Marc Gafni Situationwilliam harrymanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06981478282688361274noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-23006649731016075262021-02-09T02:45:45.057-07:002021-02-09T02:45:45.057-07:00I know a lot of these comments are from ten years ...I know a lot of these comments are from ten years ago, before 'fake news' was a houselhold term. But as far as I can tell there are no verifiable or reliable sources cleared in a court-of-law (which accomidates for confirmation-bias) that I can perceive even with extensive research even now, ten years after the fact.<br /><br />Yes, there is a court case, but anyone can file a court case against anyone, for any reason. The actual result of the case adheres to many and diverse sets of principles which nullify popular misconceptions<br /><br />As far as research and publicly viable resources go, these accusations have as much weight as my own private and wrong assertion that 'Hillary Clinton promotes racism against orange-people'.<br /><br />Give me some real non-fake news sourcing and reasoning and I'll listen. Otherwise, how on EARTH do you do know you're even commentating on reliable information!!??Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03193385202798311578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-51642980896378296562011-09-28T17:49:29.663-07:002011-09-28T17:49:29.663-07:00Prior to Gafni’s abusive behavior at Bayit Chadash...Prior to Gafni’s abusive behavior at Bayit Chadash (back in the 1980s), Mordechai Winiartz (AKA: Marc Gafni, Mordechai Gafni), sexually assaulted two teenage girls. At the time, Judy who was one of the teenage girls ask for help. The response from modern orthodox community associated with Yeshiva University in which Gafni was involved, did what they thought was best -- and chased him out of town.<br /><br />Back in 2004 the story of the teenage girls went public. The response by many was to shoot the messenger of the dangers of Marc Gafni. Rabbis Saul Berman, Joseph Telushkin and the rest of their gang went on a vicious attack against anyone associated with The Awareness Center. Berman’s gang member Rabbi Arthur Green, wrote the notorious letter to the editor of the Jewish Week (Abhorrent Column). Green called those of us who were attempting to protect others from being harmed a “rodef”. A person who meets the definition is subject to death.<br /><br />“He has been relentlessly persecuted for those deeds by a small band of fanatically committed rodfim, in whom proper disapproval of those misdeeds combines with jealously, anger at his swerving from Orthodoxy, and a range of other emotions.)”<br /><br /> <br /><br />The denial of Berman, Telushkin, Green is no different then those at Bayit Chadash or those connected to the world of Diane Hamilton. The reality is that Gafni has been chased out of many different communities over the years -- and the odds are this sexual predator will not be stopped. His modus operandi is to seek out and sexually manipulate beautiful, brilliant woman. After he is caught he lays low for a few years, during which time he recreates himself and professes his innocence and tells his new community that he is wrongly being accused, even though in the past he confessed to clergy sexual abuse against two teenage girls and many adult women.Vicki Polinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-50005917862533045982011-09-28T00:56:27.455-07:002011-09-28T00:56:27.455-07:00it seems to me that if one cannot ascertain that h...it seems to me that if one cannot ascertain that he is a charlatan after a few minutes of contact with him-then he becomes your predator and you must live by law of the jungle.<br />IMO it does not require 'prophecy' to see who he is just look and listen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-73473403080856676842011-09-14T09:21:51.618-07:002011-09-14T09:21:51.618-07:00Bill,
Thanks very much for you position on this. ...Bill,<br /><br />Thanks very much for you position on this. <br /><br />I appreciate that you're alert to the rhetorical games that will be played and are determined not to back down.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-13960695920600405712011-09-13T21:34:22.112-07:002011-09-13T21:34:22.112-07:00Thanks John and Liz - none of this happens without...Thanks John and Liz - none of this happens without the support of friends such as yourselves, so I am appreciative!<br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />I don't exonerate Wilber, but I will bet that Kempton and Gafni wrote that letter (some of the phrases, like "fig leaf," are identical to some in the post Gafni left at Integrales last year) and Ken simply went along with it.<br />He bears that guilt for all of this, as well, for either allowing his name to be used or for turning a blind eye to the real evidence, rather than the nonsense Gafni and Kempton constructed.william harrymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06981478282688361274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-53410779998275915272011-09-13T19:32:24.231-07:002011-09-13T19:32:24.231-07:00Hi Bill, I know its a little lonely over here at i...Hi Bill, I know its a little lonely over here at integral-options. Thanks for your continued coverage - keep up your efforts. I know its divisive, and provokes strong reactions - but I really believe that our community needs journalism and you are filling that need right now. I know many will interpret your actions as hateful and spiteful, but I don't think they are. I think you are committed, like me, to seeing our community learn to cope with allegations and actions like this. I'm still a long way from knowing what the best way of coping is, but someone has to bring things up and research things to the extent possible. Keep it up.<br /><br />Your friend,<br /><br />John Wagnon.John Wagnonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09213664653104707008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-88214847806021002152011-09-13T18:07:19.389-07:002011-09-13T18:07:19.389-07:00Bill,
Why try to vindicate Wilber in all of this?...Bill,<br /><br />Why try to vindicate Wilber in all of this? Don't squander the integrity you've shown by going weak-kneed before a different guru. <br /><br />Wilber claimed that he reviewed all the evidence, spoke to all the key players "directly or indirectly," and determined that all charges against Gafni were "categorically false," which means that every single woman who had testified against Gafni was lying in every detail. He even obliquely compared the accusers to neo-Nazis. Do you think that was "compassion" and "skillful speech"? <br /><br />Wilber wasn't "a good king" deceived by his evil advisors. What he wrote was sloppy and grotesque, smearing Gafni's accusers in absolute terms in order to offer Gafni an absolute vindication. Wilber is responsible for his words. Given that he hasn't taken responsibility for his words in over a decade, it's unlikely that he will now, but he has that option. Like anyone, he's free to try and win back his lost respect. But make him earn it. Don't give it away for free.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-73051291082418281962011-09-13T16:53:39.162-07:002011-09-13T16:53:39.162-07:00It's good as far as it goes. I disagree that h...It's good as far as it goes. I disagree that he made the right decision 3 years ago, or that we need to "let ten guilty men go" in order that one innocent one will go free. Teachers MUST adhere to higher standards. They are in positions of extraordinary power, and therefore the burden of proof is on them to prove they are worthy of that power. <br /><br />Many women have suffered because of this man. This is no isolated incident, nor was it 3 years ago. Where is the apology from Robb? I see none. He is culpable, no matter how small his part in it. How hard is it to say, "I'm sorry"?<br /><br />This is locking the barn door LONG after the horses were let out. Integral Life is not trustworthy, period.Lizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05239153008662864390noreply@blogger.com