tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post113637819124225005..comments2024-03-27T02:13:58.088-07:00Comments on Integral Options Cafe: Sam Harris's Fundamentalismwilliam harrymanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06981478282688361274noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-40796622927559128542008-05-02T11:17:00.000-07:002008-05-02T11:17:00.000-07:00I also agree with you in re: The Harris article. I...I also agree with you in re: The Harris article. I disagree in part. Pathological elements like fundamentalism need to be cut out or healed...not tolerated and allowed into the public sphere where they create more sickness. Would we tolerate smallpox virus floating around in our breathing spaces? Garbage in/Garbage out when it comes to the process of evolution. Virulent memes like fundamentalism need to be challenged and eliminated. I agree with Harris on this point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-1136668255614090072006-01-07T14:10:00.000-07:002006-01-07T14:10:00.000-07:00Hi Mark,Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm assu...Hi Mark,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm assuming you are referencing Islamic fundamentalists in your comments, so that is what I'll address.<BR/><BR/>ALL forms of fundamentalism scare the hell out of me. Islamic fundamentalism, for a variety of very complex reasons, is much more militant than other fundamentalisms--mostly due to tribal mullahs who misrepresent the teachings of Muhammad.<BR/><BR/>Nothing personal, but part of the "sense of urgency" you feel has been created by Bush's attempts to brainwash the American public into thinking that we are under threat of an immediate attack--it's the only way he can create enough fear to convince people to give up their civil liberties and to convince Congress to consolidate power in the executive branch of government--but that's another issue.<BR/><BR/>Having spoken to people from the Middle East who are Islamic, I think that a major part of the problem--like it or not--is that these people feel we are trying to force them to give up their faith and their cultural traditions. In SDi terms, we are asking them to jump from red/Blue to blue/Orange without the necessary social and cultural evolution that a normal growth up the Spiral would entail. <BR/><BR/>If we would allow them to govern themselves without our continual demands to do things our way, they would not feel so threatened by the U.S. and would likely not feel they need to blow things up over here to get our attention. With this in mind, I do think it's fair for us to ask them not to kill women whenever they feel like it or to prevent them from holding jobs, leaving the house, or even speaking unless spoken to. I also think it's fair to help them build more schools that teach a full spectrum of knolwedge rather than only having access to madrassas (Islamic religious schools).<BR/><BR/>We can't force people to make large leaps up the Spiral of human development, no matter how many cell phones, cars, and televisions we sell them. Each person and each culture must be allowed to develop at its own pace. In the Middle East, if we stopped trying force our worldview down their throats, they'd stop trying to kill us (no matter what Bush says to the contrary).<BR/><BR/>-Billwilliam harrymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06981478282688361274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-1136666642357194262006-01-07T13:44:00.000-07:002006-01-07T13:44:00.000-07:00Well, folks, if you think Harris's views are dange...Well, folks, if you think Harris's views are dangerous, then what do you think of the views of fundamentalists of whatever ilk, who possess nuclear weapons? Is the sense of urgency that I feel, just (only) a panic attack? Creating space for them is fine, but not if they use the space to destroy everything. Is this just a risk that must be taken? What are the safe ways of creating that space for them?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-1136428946136217772006-01-04T19:42:00.000-07:002006-01-04T19:42:00.000-07:00Hi Joe,Thanks for the comments and for mentioning ...Hi Joe,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comments and for mentioning my post on your blog.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I agree with you about glimmers of hope in his views. When I first read reviews of <I>The End of Faith</I>, I really wanted to like Harris. But the more I read his writings, especially <A HREF="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/in-defense-of-torture_b_8993.html" REL="nofollow">In Defense of Torture</A>, the more I am disappointed by his limited and dangerous views.william harrymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06981478282688361274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-1136422591601096742006-01-04T17:56:00.000-07:002006-01-04T17:56:00.000-07:00I took a look at the Harris article and overall I ...I took a look at the Harris article and overall I agree with you about the flatland scientism. There were some promising openings, though, such as when he wrote: "... distinction between science and religion is not a matter of excluding our ethical intuitions and non-ordinary states of consciousness from our conversation about the world; it is a matter of our being rigorous about what is reasonable to conclude on their basis..." That could almost be something Ken Wilber would write. Almost. But then Harris goes on with the scientism and it really is too much.JMPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03328622242031515106noreply@blogger.com