tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post1076085645291444878..comments2024-03-27T02:13:58.088-07:00Comments on Integral Options Cafe: Open Letter to Joe Perez on Attacking Tami Simonwilliam harrymanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06981478282688361274noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-81026464478545215532011-10-05T11:16:11.114-07:002011-10-05T11:16:11.114-07:00It is a serious mistake for Marc Gafni's defen...It is a serious mistake for Marc Gafni's defenders to ignore a history of sexual impropriaties that goes back over twenty five years. If they would review the comments of earlier supporters who later acknowledged that they had been taken they would find echoes of their experiences with Gafni. He spends hours being charming and describing his difficult childhood and the vengeful people who have worked to destroy him. Only "apparantly" controlling he offers to help write the statement in his defence.<br />Any individual who has changed his name, his address and his affiliations so many times is trying to escape those who know him well. It makes little sense to claim that all the women and the rabbis and other spiritual leaders are all lying and only he is telling the truth.Yosef Blauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755491846723940836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-29568720222264291672011-10-04T22:19:41.614-07:002011-10-04T22:19:41.614-07:00It took “MartyC” nearly a thousand words posted in...It took “MartyC” nearly a thousand words posted in two comments to say what he could have said in three words in a single comment:<br /><br />Blah, blah, blah.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-30397686681541207542011-10-04T00:43:02.292-07:002011-10-04T00:43:02.292-07:00(continued from above)
Also, at this scale, it se...(continued from above)<br /><br />Also, at this scale, it seems to me you have offered permanent (and the internet’s looking pretty permanent) contrast to the debased discourse that has gone on these last weeks, most notably (but not exclusively) on Harryman’s blog. You force out into the public eye those, like Simon and Robb Smith (and John Dupuy by implication), who have pissed on the hedges and then, presumably, assumed they wouldn’t have to explain themselves for their behavior and logic. They may have very important things to say to defend their position–now let’s hear them say them openly and directly, in the eye of the community and broader public. Your open letter is going to be very hard to dodge. Harryman tries in his anemic comment on this post, and doesn’t seem to realize–something both sad and instructive–that he’s tying the knots in his own noose. You may be right that over a beer there may be human contact with him, but I think his service to this debate is that he is clearly, and distinctly, serving as exemplar of a Green victim-victimizer narrative, which is hard pressed to stand in integrity (to the non-zealot) next to an Integrally informed communication like your own. There’s no point in thinking that anyone so committed to his position will listen when you present or ask for evidence–as he and his Attaboy Squad have amply demonstrated–but the unavoidable contrast between the toxic Green and the Integral stances will help, seems to me, to make them distinct enough that future readers and researches won’t be so confused about which is which, in general and specific to Marc.<br /><br />Which points to what seems to me the most significant level of all this (and of my appreciation for your post), and which you touch on when you suggest the game-changing quality of Marc’s teachings: it would be a high crime if his work was submerged under all this current bull shit. Wilber has pointed out many times the structural reality that cultures pull members up to their center of gravity, and pull down those who try to move beyond that center, and I have not seen his detractors at pains in trying to make this distinction between the speaker and the speech. There’s something mundanely ugly about this phenomenon, and about the cluelessness of his “Marc-as-predator” detractors that there’s no difference between the two, and therefore, conveniently, smearing the message for the messenger. I think your post is part of what’s going to keep this from occlusion of his teaching from happening, which beyond the value I cited above, has a deep value in the defense of the potential that Marc’s teaching has in really making life better for people, in big, profound, and visceral ways. Not because of Marc per se, anymore than (on a good day) the value of my clinical work is rooted in my Marty-ness. Rather, as my wife said elsewhere, the “God-having-a-Marc-experience” is very potent and powerful in what it wants the Frail-vessel-Marc to be doing and saying, and to try to fuck up that communication by conflating the man (who, to be clear, doesn’t have a lot to apologize for in my estimation) with the message is to be committing a pretty profound crime. And I can only hope those doing it are motivated by confusion and not malice.<br /><br />So for all those reasons, Joe, a really deep and heartfelt appreciation. Props, as the kids would say.<br /><br />Much love,<br />MartyCMartyCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-82866443006613657032011-10-04T00:42:07.017-07:002011-10-04T00:42:07.017-07:00You guys are a wacky bunch. I'm posting my com...You guys are a wacky bunch. I'm posting my comment from over at Perez's site, so have at. If you're true to form, you'll make a snide comment, then over generalizations, some claims with no backing data, and then express a sniffy self-righteousness backed by nothing more than your own contention that you are righteous. Or just not say anything, but if you bother, I'm predicting the former points, as you are all adorably consistent. <br /><br />(comment from Perez site)<br /><br />Hi Joe,<br /><br />A heartfelt thanks for this post. I’m a little rummy after a long day with clients, but wanted to post my deep appreciation for what you’ve done here, for several reasons. The most limited and personal is that I love Marc and his teachings, and hate to see him get run through the meat grinder the way he has, as I would hate to see any loved one abused.<br /><br />Then up a scale, I think you’ve substantially, and perhaps irreversibly, up-leveled (I think that’s a nerd term) the discourse both on this particular situation, and as far as I can tell, in the Integral community in general. You’ve offered a nuanced, multi-quadrant perspective (I think you left out neurobiology, but were otherwise pretty comprehensive), involving both the objective facts and your subjective perspective, and then engaged a confrontation of the statement-without-context problem (Marc uses the term, “context lie”) as exhibited by many like Tami Simon (and Bill Harryman) that is both loving, compassionate, data driven, and in-your-face. It seems to me that all this is a huge example, totally aside from the content, of what Integral discourse around community (and other) conflict should look like.<br /><br />(continued below)MartyCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13617569.post-42899424546031871032011-10-03T19:34:32.000-07:002011-10-03T19:34:32.000-07:00Joe is another psycho-sexually troubled man.
In ...Joe is another psycho-sexually troubled man.<br /><br />In a world that makes sense (not this one) he would not be writing a blog representing Integral thought.<br /><br />However, we still live in post-modern times. His blog and his post-modern ideas will, because of that, be popular.<br /><br />Where the hell is Ken?<br /><br />At this point, and even before, he should stand up and separate bullshit from truth, and shut up the voices that need to be shut up, or at least, to suggest them to shut up.<br /><br />He indirectly enables this whole circus.<br /><br />And yet, the people decide.<br /><br />I did decide.<br /><br />I'm not Integral, neither I am Second Tier :o)<br /><br />Integral is not Integral. Doesn't have integrity.<br /><br />I am also so disappointed by it.<br /><br />As I published in Integral Life,<br />I bow to Tami Simons in deep respect.<br /><br />Integriry at best.<br /><br />Also to you dear William.<br /><br />All best.<br /><br />FedericoFedericonoreply@blogger.com